Help Me! I'm Losing My Faith!
Written: June 2015.
Question - I like your genuine pursuit, however there is a fundamental flaw with the process in which you have taken to address my issues, unfortunately; the so called 'infallible word of god' has books that are stolen essentially. Some passages in proverbs, some phrases Jesus has said 'love everyone like yourself' as well as the book of genesis were all clear rip offs of historical books.
I don't know if Christianity is the ultimate fulfillment, don't get me wronged, I have experienced and held what we refer to as the holy spirit, this change in atmosphere. But I am not longer sure that it's actually the holy spirit and not just... us or anything else.
First, we have evidence that Jesus really was who He claimed to be, the embodiment of God, and we do not have competing evidence for any other religion, myth, or legend (Miles Donahue, personal correspondence).We have Google and E-bay which are the most popular search engine and only market place, why is it they are popular? is it because they are the best or by chance?
I don't doubt I have had revelation and have been in a state of enlightenment, it was a very humble and exciting period of my life, it was little stress. However there was some flaws in it; it was VERY difficult to keep myself, well, me. I was essentially pure and no barriers were up, my defenses were down so I noticed straight away when I would change.
If I went into a pub (me and my friends play pool a lot) or go to my job where there is a lot of drinking, smoking, swearing, drug use and sex (obviously only smoking and swearing there, but their lifestyle is just these things), my spirit or my inner self feels very disgusted, it's very toxic and disturbing. Not much is going well with it.
So there was definitely some part of me that was different due to Christianity, I am not doubting this. I am simply asking, if others claim to have this same state of enlightenment, who's to say I'm right? The placebo affect is very useful, who's to say Christianity isn't a placebo affect on life?
When you are promised the bible is the infallible word of god, where it is god breathed and enriched, it is the flavor of him... but then see AN ENTIRE BOOK, re-written for the purpose of the bible, I would question...
Aside from that issue and other gods all claiming to be the son of god, grow to 12 and speak to an elder. Get told to leave only to emerge 18 years later, gather 12 disciples, claim to be the reason for life only to shortly die later on and claim to be a sacrifice for the salvation. In total, approx. 81 people have been sacrificed for our freedom.
Heaven and Hell were pagan based, so was Christmas and Easter. At what point do we say 'Christianity is a collection'?
At what point do we say the holy spirit is something, and living the life style of a Jesus follower and a Pentecostal advocate is great. but that is not Christian? There is so much death and destruction in the bible. We can't hide from this, but people do.
I have tried understanding peoples positions and showed them my problem when they persisted, only for them to become infuriated that I could suggest such blasphemy. People defending it with circular arguments.
Now don't get me wrong, I will defend the bible to a fool, if someone suggests something that just isn't true, I will correct them. But these people that are supposed to be your family, your spiritual parents or brothers and sisters. How can you defend them when you have a serious problem and all they do is condemn and show scripture like 1John 2:22... I can't remember the scripture. But it basically says, who ever doesn't accept Jesus as the son of god is an antichrist.
So I would fast and pray and go into isolation and see if perhaps my mind is playing tricks on me? Perhaps I am just influenced by something not of god, something that would take me off my journey. I would ask and no response, I would get into the spirit and put on worship and praise music, I would worship and praise until I had no more problems but only questions. I would ask again. And nothing. at what point do I say... maybe this is true? Maybe the holy spirit is real but Christianity is a collection? Hercules, Dionysus, Buddha, Krishna and many many more all claimed to be the son of god and have a life like Jesus. I am sure some were false claims, but others truly did live like this.
I have been revealed things by the holy spirit, I don't doubt this, but if I am told the WHOLE book is a blessing and perfect and of god and nothing but goodness, I would start questioning, we see prophets or apostles that have prophesied and been MOSTLY right, but something was wrong. We see that in today's world.
Our church is friends with another church and one of the head pastors of that church is very prophetic, she told us that she has been mistaken some times, as well as prophets from bethel and other places. Where it was more them and less god, that's cool. I respect that, I got no quarrels with that. personal I have experienced mild foretelling of events, that were more convicted and revealed then me thinking, but then I have suggested something would act a certain way and nothing.
This prophet is also pretty good, I truly believe she has a good connection with jesus.
Probably the last problem I have is with creationists and ID advocates. These people refuse evolution, an old earth and some refuse a round earth and truly thing the earth is flat. These are all simply false. I am a biology major and know what I'm looking at when I see evidence. If you want to debate me on this, I will happily take you on.
However again, I put my pride and knowledge behind me in order to believe and have faith and hope and salvation. I said... if evolution is true and god is also true. well they must co-exist. I was happy with that, but people suggested so much that it's false, even my head pastors did. This is not something I took easily. After this I decided to look up arguments for creationism, a young earth, ID and even a flat earth and then arguments against them. They were completely shattered with logic and reason.
Aside from these points I also have a problem where people claim to hear from god and common atrocity like murder or abuse. I do appreciate you seeing my problem and trying to help, but the iceberg has just been touched. there is so much more. Why does a god care so much about foreskin when he has created the universe, unless you know much about astronomy, you could not appreciate that statement for what it is. I truly believe that the bible was man made and tried to be god inspired but wasn't. and the Christians we have today is a Jesus influenced church directed by Paul.
I hope I didn't insult you or affect your faith, as it is my faith in question. i could share some encouraging scripture with you.
Colossians 2:4 " I am telling you this so no one will deceive you with well-crafted arguments."
Colossians 2:8 "Don't let anyone capture with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ."
Proverbs 3:5 "Trust in the Lord with all your heart; do not depend on your own understanding.
Proverbs 4:14 "Don't do as the wicked do, and don't follow the path of evildoers."
Proverbs 4:23 "Guard your heart above all else."
I found that when i was going through problems with faith i could use scripture like this to comfort me and make me know where i stand in Christ. i could always be the person i thought i was called to be when i knew where i stood. because i knew who i was, i knew my potential and i knew that humility was key. Surrendering everything :)
I still think this, I just have personal faith problems and am no longer a Christian. I really wish i could be, but it would be insulting to both me and god if i would say i was. it would just be down right lying....I am educated with the bible, i know how to use it, i know how to pray, i have a relationship with god. i can call upon the holy spirit, that's all good and well. But the problems i have are not to be dismissed. and if they come to the front lines of my focus, I will realize that it's either all lies, partial truths or just real.
But yeah. Slow and steady :) it would be good if we can continue talking though.
My Response - I do not take insult from your genuine struggles with the Christian faith, and your doubts do not affect my own faith. I do, however, take insult with the people who condemned you as a blasphemer and not-so-subtly implied your status as the anti-Christ. Such people do not represent the love of Jesus. Moreover, it seems to me that these people have no intellectual basis for their faith. When they hear your objections, the only thing they can do is react with indignation; after all, they have no answers, no solutions. All they have is emotion.
With me, you will be treated with respect and cordiality. I take very seriously peoples’ personal quests - and personal struggles - with faith, and I want to do whatever I can to help along the way. With that in mind, let me address what I take to be your central problems with Christianity.
First, you find very problematic the idea that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. As you say, books within it were “stolen…rip offs.” But let me suggest that even if the Bible is not the Word of God, but merely a collection of generally reliable historical works (with errors, contradictions, and downright fabrications), that fact does not go a single inch in suggesting that Christianity is false. The two central beliefs of Christianity are these: (1) God exists and (2) God has revealed Himself in Jesus of Nazareth. How does an error in the Bible suggest that (1) and (2) are false? Indeed, many Christians reject biblical inerrancy but are nevertheless orthodox Christians. Where is the inconsistency in such people?
I think the problem here, my friend, is that you have placed biblical inerrancy at the very center of your web of beliefs. When biblical inerrancy is disproved, the entire web collapses. But surely this represents a perverse understanding of Christianity. A Christian’s web of beliefs should look more like this: the existence of God at the center, followed by the divinity of Christ and His resurrection from the dead. Further out would be the fact of Christ’s eventual return. Only on the very periphery of the web is belief in the inspired Word of God. Therefore, if this last doctrine is disproved, the entire web does not crumble. If you find an error, contradiction, fabrication, or lie in some biblical text, you ought to give up your belief in biblical inerrancy. The last thing you should do, however, is renounce your Christian faith.
Second, you are very troubled by the parallels between Jesus Christ and pagan religious figures. As you say, “other gods [were] all claiming to be the son of god, grow to 12 and speak to an elder. Get told to leave only to emerge 18 years later, gather 12 disciples, claim to be the reason for life only to shortly die later on and claim to be a sacrifice for the salvation.” Indeed, “approx. 81 people have been sacrificed for our freedom.” That would be troubling indeed. If it were true, that is. But in my response, I gave three responses to this “pagan-dependency” argument, and you have not responded to them. Let me review them here.
1. In contrast to all other ancient religious figures, we have evidence that Jesus really was who He claimed to be - the embodiment of God - and we do not have competing evidence for any other religion, myth, or legend – Your response is to say that just because Christianity is popular, it does not follow that it is true. That is right, but that is not my argument. The evidence for Christianity consists in actual historical evidence, and I invite you to take a look at it. If you get the chance, read Craig’s, “On Guard: Student Edition”, for an excellent introduction to the evidence.
2. The vast majority of parallels between Jesus and other pagan figures are fictional creations of modern scholars - I cannot help but notice that you do not provide any quotations of the primary source material that these supposed parallels are drawn from. If I may speculate, I think you have read about these on certain internet infidel websites, perhaps blogs from this or that internet atheist, but have never taken the time to actually look at the ancient documents themselves to see if they have been misinterpreted. In point of fact, when this is done, nearly all parallels disappear.
Mithras, for instance, is heralded as the chief example of a religious figure who parallels the life of Jesus. He was supposedly born of a virgin, had twelve disciples, atoned for sin, and died on a cross. In truth, the texts themselves speak of Mithras being born from solid rock, surrounded by the twelve signs of the Zodiac, killing a bull to create life, and his death is never mentioned.
Hercules, supposedly born of a virgin and heralded as the Son of God, was a demigod born from the sexual encounter between Zeus and a mortal women. Surely you do not think this parallels the biblical account of Jesus of Nazareth? Jesus was not a demigod, but rather God among men, and He was not created via sexual intercourse.
Buddha, again the supposed Son of God born of a virgin, was born to a women who had six prior children (ergo, not a virgin), and the Buddha was implanted into her in the form of an elephant. I might add the further point that the earliest forms of Buddhism never viewed him as a God, but only as a wise teacher who pointed the way to Enlightenment. The accounts of Jesus’ birth are very different, to say the least, and much earlier to his actual birth.
Similar things can be said of the alleged dying and rising gods in pagan religions, as I indicated in my previous response.
The general point about parallels is this: it is only by (1) ignoring the profound differences between accounts of resurrections and virgin births and (2) overplaying superficial similarities that any significant parallel to Jesus can be found.
3. There was no line of influence from pagan religions to the historical accounts of Jesus – There are two reasons that pagan religions did not influence early Christianity. (a) The Judaism of Jesus’ day was completely resistant to pagan influence. Jews, to the extent that they knew of pagan myths, found them detestable and heathen. At the very least, they resolutely maintained their faith in the face of a diverse religious culture (as evidence, observe that the emperor deliberately left his face off coins distributed in Palestine, out of respect for the Jewish prohibition against worshiping graven images; examples like this could be multiplied).
(b) The fundamental point is this: all the evidence drawn upon to demonstrate parallels between Christianity and pagan religions comes from after the first century. We have no evidence of a mystery religion or pagan cult from before the birth of Jesus, or even during the period of the early Church. Therefore, “if there was any line of influence, it would seem more reasonable to argue that it was from Christianity to the mystery religions rather than the other way around” (Paul Eddy and Gregory Boyd, The Jesus Legend, 140).
Dionysus is a case in point. His virgin birth “is attested only is post-Christian sources. It is significant that it is indeed Christians who speak of his virgin birth” (J. Ed Komoszewski, M. James Sawyer , and Daniel B. Wallace, Reinventing Jesus, 242), whereas pagan sources never do. This illustrates the kind of “Christian influence” I am talking about.
Third, creationists and Intelligent Design theorists push you away from Christianity. But why? Do you think Christianity requires belief in a young universe, a flat earth, and the falsity of evolutionary theory? Surely, it does not. You can be an orthodox Christian and yet believe that evolutionary theory is true, that the earth is round, and that the universe is billions of years old. Where is the inconsistency? Indeed, you can even believe in the inerrancy of the Bible and still accept those beliefs. There are many interpretations of Genesis 1-3, and many of them allow for an old universe (and the process of evolution, for that matter). A literal, six-day interpretation is by far the only viable one. Perhaps a revelatory-day interpretation is correct, whereby God revealed to Moses over a period of six days his process of creation. Or perhaps we ought to adopt a day-age interpretation, where each creation day is understood as an indefinite period of time rather than a literal day. The options are open.
At the end of the day, my friend, I think you’ve made two errors in your assessment of objections to the Christian faith. First, you have let problems with secondary, nonessential doctrines of Christian teaching tear your faith away completely. But that is not rational. If the universe is 13.7 billion years old, does if follow that Jesus was not raised from the dead? Of course not. My advice, then, is to not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Second, you have not investigated how Christian scholars respond to your objections. From what I can tell, your process has been to push down your doubts until they no longer bother you. Sometimes you seek out the Holy Spirit in the hope that He will take away your doubts. But by now you realize He will not. Instead, I encourage you to bring your doubts into the light of day and ask the Holy Spirit to guide your study and your investigation into how your objections might be answered. As philosopher William Lane Craig has said, “Pursue your doubts into the ground” (Hard Questions, Real Answers, 41).
I might add a third point: do not bother talking to the people you spoke with before; they are completely unhelpful, and further dialogue with them is a waste of time. Your Christian friends have not helped you because they were not ready to give a defense for the hope that is in them (1 Peter 3:15).
I hope I didn't insult you or affect your faith, as it is my faith in question. i could share some encouraging scripture with you.
Colossians 2:4 " I am telling you this so no one will deceive you with well-crafted arguments."
Colossians 2:8 "Don't let anyone capture with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ."
Proverbs 3:5 "Trust in the Lord with all your heart; do not depend on your own understanding.
Proverbs 4:14 "Don't do as the wicked do, and don't follow the path of evildoers."
Proverbs 4:23 "Guard your heart above all else."
I found that when i was going through problems with faith i could use scripture like this to comfort me and make me know where i stand in Christ. i could always be the person i thought i was called to be when i knew where i stood. because i knew who i was, i knew my potential and i knew that humility was key. Surrendering everything :)
I still think this, I just have personal faith problems and am no longer a Christian. I really wish i could be, but it would be insulting to both me and god if i would say i was. it would just be down right lying....I am educated with the bible, i know how to use it, i know how to pray, i have a relationship with god. i can call upon the holy spirit, that's all good and well. But the problems i have are not to be dismissed. and if they come to the front lines of my focus, I will realize that it's either all lies, partial truths or just real.
But yeah. Slow and steady :) it would be good if we can continue talking though.
My Response - I do not take insult from your genuine struggles with the Christian faith, and your doubts do not affect my own faith. I do, however, take insult with the people who condemned you as a blasphemer and not-so-subtly implied your status as the anti-Christ. Such people do not represent the love of Jesus. Moreover, it seems to me that these people have no intellectual basis for their faith. When they hear your objections, the only thing they can do is react with indignation; after all, they have no answers, no solutions. All they have is emotion.
With me, you will be treated with respect and cordiality. I take very seriously peoples’ personal quests - and personal struggles - with faith, and I want to do whatever I can to help along the way. With that in mind, let me address what I take to be your central problems with Christianity.
First, you find very problematic the idea that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. As you say, books within it were “stolen…rip offs.” But let me suggest that even if the Bible is not the Word of God, but merely a collection of generally reliable historical works (with errors, contradictions, and downright fabrications), that fact does not go a single inch in suggesting that Christianity is false. The two central beliefs of Christianity are these: (1) God exists and (2) God has revealed Himself in Jesus of Nazareth. How does an error in the Bible suggest that (1) and (2) are false? Indeed, many Christians reject biblical inerrancy but are nevertheless orthodox Christians. Where is the inconsistency in such people?
I think the problem here, my friend, is that you have placed biblical inerrancy at the very center of your web of beliefs. When biblical inerrancy is disproved, the entire web collapses. But surely this represents a perverse understanding of Christianity. A Christian’s web of beliefs should look more like this: the existence of God at the center, followed by the divinity of Christ and His resurrection from the dead. Further out would be the fact of Christ’s eventual return. Only on the very periphery of the web is belief in the inspired Word of God. Therefore, if this last doctrine is disproved, the entire web does not crumble. If you find an error, contradiction, fabrication, or lie in some biblical text, you ought to give up your belief in biblical inerrancy. The last thing you should do, however, is renounce your Christian faith.
Second, you are very troubled by the parallels between Jesus Christ and pagan religious figures. As you say, “other gods [were] all claiming to be the son of god, grow to 12 and speak to an elder. Get told to leave only to emerge 18 years later, gather 12 disciples, claim to be the reason for life only to shortly die later on and claim to be a sacrifice for the salvation.” Indeed, “approx. 81 people have been sacrificed for our freedom.” That would be troubling indeed. If it were true, that is. But in my response, I gave three responses to this “pagan-dependency” argument, and you have not responded to them. Let me review them here.
1. In contrast to all other ancient religious figures, we have evidence that Jesus really was who He claimed to be - the embodiment of God - and we do not have competing evidence for any other religion, myth, or legend – Your response is to say that just because Christianity is popular, it does not follow that it is true. That is right, but that is not my argument. The evidence for Christianity consists in actual historical evidence, and I invite you to take a look at it. If you get the chance, read Craig’s, “On Guard: Student Edition”, for an excellent introduction to the evidence.
2. The vast majority of parallels between Jesus and other pagan figures are fictional creations of modern scholars - I cannot help but notice that you do not provide any quotations of the primary source material that these supposed parallels are drawn from. If I may speculate, I think you have read about these on certain internet infidel websites, perhaps blogs from this or that internet atheist, but have never taken the time to actually look at the ancient documents themselves to see if they have been misinterpreted. In point of fact, when this is done, nearly all parallels disappear.
Mithras, for instance, is heralded as the chief example of a religious figure who parallels the life of Jesus. He was supposedly born of a virgin, had twelve disciples, atoned for sin, and died on a cross. In truth, the texts themselves speak of Mithras being born from solid rock, surrounded by the twelve signs of the Zodiac, killing a bull to create life, and his death is never mentioned.
Hercules, supposedly born of a virgin and heralded as the Son of God, was a demigod born from the sexual encounter between Zeus and a mortal women. Surely you do not think this parallels the biblical account of Jesus of Nazareth? Jesus was not a demigod, but rather God among men, and He was not created via sexual intercourse.
Buddha, again the supposed Son of God born of a virgin, was born to a women who had six prior children (ergo, not a virgin), and the Buddha was implanted into her in the form of an elephant. I might add the further point that the earliest forms of Buddhism never viewed him as a God, but only as a wise teacher who pointed the way to Enlightenment. The accounts of Jesus’ birth are very different, to say the least, and much earlier to his actual birth.
Similar things can be said of the alleged dying and rising gods in pagan religions, as I indicated in my previous response.
The general point about parallels is this: it is only by (1) ignoring the profound differences between accounts of resurrections and virgin births and (2) overplaying superficial similarities that any significant parallel to Jesus can be found.
3. There was no line of influence from pagan religions to the historical accounts of Jesus – There are two reasons that pagan religions did not influence early Christianity. (a) The Judaism of Jesus’ day was completely resistant to pagan influence. Jews, to the extent that they knew of pagan myths, found them detestable and heathen. At the very least, they resolutely maintained their faith in the face of a diverse religious culture (as evidence, observe that the emperor deliberately left his face off coins distributed in Palestine, out of respect for the Jewish prohibition against worshiping graven images; examples like this could be multiplied).
(b) The fundamental point is this: all the evidence drawn upon to demonstrate parallels between Christianity and pagan religions comes from after the first century. We have no evidence of a mystery religion or pagan cult from before the birth of Jesus, or even during the period of the early Church. Therefore, “if there was any line of influence, it would seem more reasonable to argue that it was from Christianity to the mystery religions rather than the other way around” (Paul Eddy and Gregory Boyd, The Jesus Legend, 140).
Dionysus is a case in point. His virgin birth “is attested only is post-Christian sources. It is significant that it is indeed Christians who speak of his virgin birth” (J. Ed Komoszewski, M. James Sawyer , and Daniel B. Wallace, Reinventing Jesus, 242), whereas pagan sources never do. This illustrates the kind of “Christian influence” I am talking about.
Third, creationists and Intelligent Design theorists push you away from Christianity. But why? Do you think Christianity requires belief in a young universe, a flat earth, and the falsity of evolutionary theory? Surely, it does not. You can be an orthodox Christian and yet believe that evolutionary theory is true, that the earth is round, and that the universe is billions of years old. Where is the inconsistency? Indeed, you can even believe in the inerrancy of the Bible and still accept those beliefs. There are many interpretations of Genesis 1-3, and many of them allow for an old universe (and the process of evolution, for that matter). A literal, six-day interpretation is by far the only viable one. Perhaps a revelatory-day interpretation is correct, whereby God revealed to Moses over a period of six days his process of creation. Or perhaps we ought to adopt a day-age interpretation, where each creation day is understood as an indefinite period of time rather than a literal day. The options are open.
At the end of the day, my friend, I think you’ve made two errors in your assessment of objections to the Christian faith. First, you have let problems with secondary, nonessential doctrines of Christian teaching tear your faith away completely. But that is not rational. If the universe is 13.7 billion years old, does if follow that Jesus was not raised from the dead? Of course not. My advice, then, is to not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Second, you have not investigated how Christian scholars respond to your objections. From what I can tell, your process has been to push down your doubts until they no longer bother you. Sometimes you seek out the Holy Spirit in the hope that He will take away your doubts. But by now you realize He will not. Instead, I encourage you to bring your doubts into the light of day and ask the Holy Spirit to guide your study and your investigation into how your objections might be answered. As philosopher William Lane Craig has said, “Pursue your doubts into the ground” (Hard Questions, Real Answers, 41).
I might add a third point: do not bother talking to the people you spoke with before; they are completely unhelpful, and further dialogue with them is a waste of time. Your Christian friends have not helped you because they were not ready to give a defense for the hope that is in them (1 Peter 3:15).
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